Re: Voyager "Displaced" Vulcan ritual
Saul Epstein 
Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:54:52 -0600

McReynolds:
The question we have to ask ourselves is simple: are we creating the
language of the Vulcan people, or are we just constructing yet another
conlang with a basis in a sci-fi show?

Saul:
If I respected Paramount d'Viacom, I would certainly be inclined to ask the
question this way. As it is I am only willing to grant them certain rights
with regard to something larger than any corporation.

McReynolds:
Personally, I would rather try and
include EVERYTHING we can.  Luckily, we almost always hear ceremonial words
and phrases that probably date to pre-Reformation times and may be borrowed
from other languages on Vulcan.  So, if a smattering of words exhibit un-ZC
sounds, does it really matter?  I think it would make the language more
real and believable.

    [snip]

So, my vote is to include all the Vulcan we can, even if some of it is
archaic or not in common usage.  in other words, we shouldn't ignore
Voyager, even if the show itself sucks.  (Although season 4 is a BIG
improvement... but that is another subject entirely).

Saul:
These are good points, and you present a more constructive wording than I
did. What I should have made clearer was that I suggest we ignore "Voyager"
in the process of constructing our particular dialect of a particular
language, one which we hope represents the (inter)planetary common dialect.
Past a certain point, any sentences Tuvok may produce will inevitably be
inanalyzable gibberish and, just as Okrand doesn't want to raze tlhIngan
Hol, I don't feel like we should expect ourselves to do so. If that means
claiming that most of what Tuvok says comes from a different (though still
Vulcan) language entirely, I obviously have no problem with that.

Rob (responding to McReynolds as well):
I can agree with the sentiment, but what do we do when something
from Voyager directly conflicts with something in the ZC?

McReynolds:
Explain it away with a cheap excuse of course! ;-) My problem is that, like
it or not, these words are Vulcan language, y'know?

Saul:
But not necessarily related to the one we're working on.

McReynolds:
If it directly
contradicts the ZC, that's too bad for us, I guess!  I mean, if you get
down to it, we're the fan boys trying to create a language based on THEIR
show.
If it goes a direction we don't like with that language, then we just have
to grit our teeth and bear through it.

Saul:
I guess. If you get "up" to it, though, we're members of Pralakhute Ngox,
and they're trying to create a show that has very little to do with our
language. It would be different if they made a show that were set on a
planet or ship with a large Vulcan population, which made frequent reference
to Vulcan terms and even gave us a sentence or conversation now and then.

McReynolds:
Like I said before, we luckily have
the luxury of ritual to explain away most of the contradictory or
distasteful words.  They don't have to fit the ZC, because they don't have
to come from the fictitious origin of the ZC.  And besides, logical or not,
the Vulcans have to have SOME variations or exceptions to the rule.

Saul:
Right. The "ritual" explanation is a variety of the broader "diversity"
explanation. Even though Vulcan and its settlements have probably had a
common dialect for a thousand years or more, I'm convinced that other
dialects and even other language families, with their own languages and
dialects, still thrive. "Tal'oth," may be what Tuvok's people call our "Kaas
Waan" and his speech may be full of dental fricatives. But those very
differences make his data less important to our work. We should include them
in any summary of Vulcan linguistics as a whole, but not go to too much
trouble to make room for them in the dialect the ZC describes.

Of course, this very situation gives people the opportunity to start side
projects, if that seems desirable. I think it's too early for that at this
stage, though.

--
from Saul Epstein
liberty*uit,net
http://www,johnco,cc,ks,us/~sepstein
"Surak ow'phaaper thes'hi thes'tca'; thes'phaadjar thes'hi suraketca'."
                                        -- K'dvarin Urswhl'at