Re: The Next Step (was Vulcan in Vulcan) Saul Epstein Thu, 23 Oct 1997 10:43:19 -0500 At 04:13 PM 10/23/97 MET_DST, Maggie wrote: >I thought /ee/ would be like in the English word "eerie" (as in weird, >uncanny), it is the British (IMHO) that pronounce "there" as th/ai/(r). Well, no, not in modern English. (As always, some dialects are bound to be different.) "Eerie" is pronounced /iri/ or /iirii/ or /irii/ or /iiri/, depending on the words around it, dialect, and how much of a hurry the speaker is in. Long ago it was probably pronounced /eerih/, where /h/ is a fricative near the in German "ich" -- but that would have been before the Great English Vowel Shift, in which about half the occurances of each vowel rose a notch in the mouth, giving new importance to soon-to-be-silent final s and driving future students of English temporarily insane. In case this is the problem: many of us were told as children that there is a "short e" in words like "bet" and a "long e" in words like "discrete." But it's important to realize that, phonetically, the English grammarian's "long e" is actually an /i/. The "long a" is actually /ei/; the "short a" is actually /=E6/ (that's an ae ligature, if the character doesn't transmit); that the "short" i,u, and o are not necessarily any shorter than the long ones but are lower in the mouth. Just think: once upon a time, English pronunciation conformed to its spelling almost as closely as Spanish... So, in really crisp, "proper" British, "there" is pronounced /the^/ and "thereon," /theron/. Notice that the non-silent in "there" was NOT hit by the vowel shift, which would have produced /thi^/, rhyming with "here." Consistency is the hobgoblin... -- from Saul Epstein liberty uit net www johnco cc ks us sepstein "Surak ow'pha:per the's'hi the's'cha'; the's'pha:dzhar the's'hi surakecha'." -- K'dvarin Ursw~l'at